September 12, 2018

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Scott: [00:00:00]        Hello everybody, my name is Scott Papek and I am in one of the coolest– I wouldn’t even, it’s not a shack man. This place is awesome. The Taj Meshack?

Interviewee 2: [00:00:13]      It’s the Taj Meshack.

Scott: [00:00:15]                    The Taj Meshack. I am in– it’s not Des Moines. What’s the actual town?

Interviewee 1: [00:00:20]      Urbandale

Scott: [00:00:20]                    Urbandale

Interviewee 1: [00:00:21]      Urbandale, lowa.

Scott: [00:00:22]                    I’m in Urbandale, Iowa at the Mudbum Supply Shack. They were kind enough to let me come in and visit with them and I’ve got three of the dudes with me. I’ve got Johnny, Willy and Blaine. What’s up

Interviewee 1: [00:00:38]      What’s up my man, thanks for making the journey.

Interviewee 2: [00:00:39]      Thanks for coming. Great to have you. It’s awesome to be here sitting around with everybody.

Interviewee 3: [00:00:44]      I’m really glad that you got to see me today, Scott. Thanks man. Thank you.

Scott: [00:00:49]        So we just met, I don’t know– couple of hours ago, been hanging out. So what you don’t know, like their energy– that you guys have an incredible energy and I’ve already had a bull horn on me. I’ve been hit in the behind. There’s been a lot of pranks [laughter] going on all out of love though, right?

Interviewee 3: [00:01:07]      Sure. So we tell all our guess.

Scott: [00:01:09]        I’m on video somewhere somehow they already got– [guaranteed] [laughs] it’s been a pure joy and it’s nice to be able to sit here and relax while you guys sit around and have some ipas and, and shoot the crap here for a bit. So let’s start off with your premed bums. let’s start off with your background. Start with you playing a

Interviewee 1: [00:01:29]      Background previous to mudbum. Hard kid to handle. Graduated with a one point nine GPA by the skin of my teeth and[inaudible 01:38] schooling fell through. Started in the construction field, worked in the construction field primarily in the flooring trades, starting out in the residential area and eventually migrating into the commercial world. Was doing that up until January sixth of 2016. Started out on the Labor end and by the time I left was negotiating contracts for a company that we helped essentially quintupled in sales, and in 36 months, so[interuption]

Scott: [00:02:08]        It was awesome, man. Sounds like it. Billy?

Interviewee 2: [00:02:13]      Born and raised in Des Moines, Iowa. Grew up pretty much in the woods. I grew up on a lake and playing in the woods and really just fell in love with the outdoors at an early age and got to a point in my life were never really excelled at anything but being in the woods and on the water and kind of found out, that was my passion. Dabbled in a lot of different jobs in the construction world and ultimately found myself working here with Mudbum because it’s a passion to be working in the outdoor space.

Interviewee 3: [00:02:46]      So,much like these guys grew up except one main difference is I grew up in a small town, Iowa. So I actually didn’t grow up in Des Moines. I’m a loud, boisterous kid. Fourth– [laughs] I was the fourth. So, you know, everyone says that’s the clown kid. Did a lot of stupid things as a kid. Slow Learner, broke a lot of bones, ramped a lot of bikes, learned a lot of hard lessons, went on, went to college, did the whole college thing, graduated, worked in corporate America for 11 plus years, until I came and joined the mud team. So pull that pin and threw the grenade about exactly a year ago this week really and so I’ve been on the team for about a year and threw that grenade and still waiting for it to explode.

Scott: [00:03:34]        So how did the– how the whole Mud bums come together?

Interviewee 3: [00:03:46]      Is everybody uncomfortable yet? Good. I wanted to make everybody as uncomfortable as possible listening to that because it’s– this is Kind of like a fire hose of information to the face and you need 27 beers to hear, hear it. But the very short answer on that, the mud bums came together through its– we’re long time buddies. So two of us– two of us graduated the same year in high school, myself and shiner gradual– Aaron cregger graduated the same year.

I met him January 16th of 1998 when I met him, known each other since and then Niles and Reed Aka Willy and Reed were three years behind me and Aaron and what a lot of people don’t know is Aaron and Reed are brothers and so Niles and Reed naturally are buddies. Me and Erin are naturally buddies and you hang out with your buddies and your brothers’ buddies, and your buddies, brothers’ buddies. So that’s kind of how the whole thing started. And then there was another guy, , that essentially took us out for our first time diddy polling and that’s Kind of how the whole thing started was we saw a method of fishing that could be approved upon, improved upon. And that’s what happened.

Scott: [00:05:08]        So you guys agree?

Interviewee 1: [00:05:09]     Yeah, I mean it belongs to the short answer definitely, but it really was just– like he said, a group of guys that were good buddies that had an idea went out and executed it. I don’t think the plan was ever really to become the mud bums. It never started as that. It evolved into it.

Interviewee 2: [00:05:30]      Yeah. And like if you look at where we’re at today, so there’s a lot– there’s a lot of chapters in the short amount of time. There’s a lot of ground to cover and the hardest part is to really kind of wrap your head around who we are today and who we were. Then we’re still the same people. There’s nothing that’s changed in terms of who we are as humans, the character and the things that we really love our passions, but we really aspire to do. Right. But there’s a lot of things that have happened since then.

Everybody thinks that we’re just cat fishing guys. And so in the outdoor world, in the outdoor space, you got pursuit channel, outdoor channel and NBC and you got all these different sports platforms and when we came out with our first show, we were immediately like, oh yeah, those are the cat fishing guys, the catfish guys from Iowa. The mud bums the catfish guys. And really it is true. We like to catfish, but that couldn’t be further from the truth that we’re the catfish guys. Let me be very clear.

We like to catfish, we do enjoy that. But if– But I would be lying to anybody that stood here today if I told him that that was our passion. It’s not mine. It’s not my passion. Is thing I like to do during a season of the year, right? That’s who we are. We’re dudes that like spending time with each other. The passions change throughout the seasons. But as long as we’re together and we’re doing something that’s who we are. We just Kind of got painted into a corner because we invented a product that existed into a space that that’s the natural way that it happened.

Scott: [00:06:58]        So I’m guessing your passion is just when you guys are out in the wild together and it doesn’t really matter what you’re doing.

Interviewee 2: [00:07:10]      Absolutely and really you don’t. It doesn’t even have to be in the wild. I prefer the wild. Right. But you can throw me in a circle with any of these dudes, and any of these guys doing anything. It doesn’t matter where we’re at. I mean we could be in the target parking lot, driving remote controlled beavers across the parking lot, scaring people. And I had a great time with these guys doing that. and if you’re wondering, yes, that happened last week[inaudible 07;33] did happened.[laughter]

Interviewee 1: [00:07:37]      It wasn’t exactly well received with everybody. We’ll just leave it at that, but not everyone thought we were as funny as we did.

Interviewee 2: [00:07:46]      And when the side door got opened up on my truck from the individual that didn’t appreciate it so much, I think they were just as shocked to see that it was two men sitting in there. They were in their mid 30 [laughter]–

Interviewee 1: [00:07:59]      I think she was just as shocked about that is the fact that there was a remote control beaver that just drove out from underneath about half ton Chevrolet pickup truck and the parked in the handicap spot.

Interviewee 3: [00:08:11]      Yeah, I think we were probably older than she was.

Interviewee 1: [00:08:17]      And She was expecting some 17 year old.

Interviewee 2: [00:08:21]      Yeah. So maybe we can be doing anything and as long as we’re– As long as we’re together, we’re having it work. We’re good.

Scott: [00:08:29]        So let’s talk about when you, when you do an episode, you’re going to go film an episode. How many days is that? What does that look like? Like what is this start to the end look like for you guys? We could even go into the preparation to find your spot. and then how much you guys will actually stay on base camp and then come back. What does that Kind of look like time-wise?

Interviewee 1: [00:09:01]      Well, every trip’s a little different depending on what we’re going to go try to accomplish or do, but a typical camping trip, we’ll prep probably about a week in advance. And can you hear me all right?

Scott: [00:09:12]        Yeah.

Interviewee 1: [00:09:12]      It’s all good?

Scott: [00:09:13]        You’re good.

Interviewee 1: [00:09:13]      Cool. So we’ll probably have–

Scott: [00:09:15]        So you only do– so you’re saying for your trip, you just say, hey, one week out. You’re like, we’re going here?

Interviewee 1: [00:09:20]      No, no, no, no. I’m saying that the actual prep of gear and stuff. No, no, we’ll sit down well in advance and determine location, what we’re going to be doing and when, what date that is on the calendar. And we’ll block it off.

Scott: [00:09:32]        To interrupt you for a second though. It could,If it’s like spring and the water temperature hits the right spot.

Interviewee 1: [00:09:36]      It could. Yeah, we could roll a moment’s notice if we[crostalk]

Scott: [00:09:40]        But how has it been from your experience in like, all right, it’s go time, let’s just go, right.

Interviewee 1: [00:09:43]      Yeah, it’s better to plan it

Interviewee 2: [00:09:46]      There’s certain times in the year that were quote unquote on call and Nimble and other times in the year where it’s more like preparation and this is on the books, if that makes sense.

Scott: [00:09:54]        Absolutely.

Interviewee 3: [00:09:56]      So then so, we usually about a week of prep just going through all of our gear, making sure that, you know, boats are all checked out, everything’s working, everything’s functioning properly, we have all the gear, everything is organized, we have everything that we need for the week and it’s usually– we take off on a Saturday and we return on a Friday or a Sunday, depending on the fishing’s good, you know, we might have a killer trip in four days and we’re like, hey, we can go home or we might be struggling to catch a fish and we’re going to stay an extra two days. But we’re variable in that, in that regard. So yeah, [inaudible 10:29] is usually about a week of prep for a week of camping.

Scott: [00:10:33]        That base camp you guys set up is pretty awesome. Let’s talk about that from the TV shows, they look pretty epic. I mean, you know, it’s not just tensing up like it’s a living space. That’s pretty cool.

Interviewee 2: [00:10:45]      It is– man. It’s not roughing it.[laughter] It’s true. It’s just, it’s not roughing it. There’s dudes out there who are, call it for what it is like your Jim shockey’s maybe, right? You’re going to find this dude named Arctica living 37 feet below the surface, you know, hunting at night with all different types of things that just are unfathomable, right? He’s the wild guy. We liked central Nela candles and carved steps into the muddy bank and you can pretty. And we groom our camp with rakes and weed eaters. I mean, the goal for us is if we’re there for seven days, man, it’s going to be livable, it’s going to be awesome and it’s going to be one of the most enjoyable weeks that we can make it.

And so we know that by doing that the tents are going to be perfect, the kitchen’s going to be perfect, the food is going to be perfect, the setting is going to be perfect, everything’s going to be as perfect as possible so that you’re relaxed and you’re laughing and the only thing you have to worry about is not survival. It’s not eating. It’s not scary animals and bugs. It’s the only thing that I’m worried about is who’s going to crack the biggest joke? who’s going to do the most ridiculous thing, right? That’s what we’re worried about. And we try to build that because that’s why we’re there. Right. Is to have a good time.

Scott: [00:12:12]        So how much prep do you guys spend on pranks, [laughter] thinking of pranks to do on these trips? I mean, and then you can’t share it with your buddies because you’re the one that’s going to– so how do you bounce that idea off? But the pranks?

Interviewee 1: [00:12:29]      I would say a lot of it just kind of happens moderately on the fly. But I will also say that there are pranks that have been in planning phase for nine months or years that haven’t even happened and may not even happen for two more years [laughter] because the timing’s not right. I know we got Willie pretty good last year and he’s ever since then been telling us. Just wait boys, just wait. So that’s been December that he’s been plotting on something against us that we don’t even know when or where.

Interviewee 2: [00:12:58]      Yeah. So for those of you who don’t know what we’re referring to when we went down duck hunting with the boys in Louisiana with gator tracks boats at Springfield, Louisiana, again, they’re just like you guys are a partner of ours and they’ve gotten to be really good friends and I can already tell [we’re boys. We’re good]. We’re okay.

Interviewee 1: [00:13:13]      We’re good. We have a crap. We’re drinking.

Interviewee 2: [00:13:16]      We got the cold ones. [crosstalk] right man. Life is good. And so we went down there, duck hunting with them for the first time ever. We’ve known him for years. Set this whole thing up. This was? what episode was this last year? [Twelve and 30– 11 and 12]. Eleven and 12. And of course we’re with, there’s at least 10 guys there and every guy is kind of like, oh, you, that was a seven. I think I can do an eight. Oh, that was an eight. I think I can at least get a nine point three. So every guy’s doing the rest. And Lo and behold, Willie fell asleep first and got 60 miles traveled, placed around him. A thousand black cats went off in a giant boiling pot in the middle of a dark room and he woke up to have a fire extinguisher shot off in his face.[laughter] Now I laugh about it knowing full well that my turn is coming[laughter]

Interviewee 3: [00:14:10]      Right and I might add, I might add that he absolutely took it like a man. And there has been no more gracious reception to a joke that I’ve seen that’s been– that can beat that one[No] I prove it to you willing.

Interviewee 1: [00:14:26]      I was so discombobulated at the time [laughter] and I really had no idea what was really going on in my world other than the fact that I thought I may have been been shot at, possibly sprayed with some type of chemical agent and had to find my way out of this war zone that I had found myself in when I passed out that night.

Scott: [00:14:47]        Well, I’d like to just say that you would definitely be dead if that’s how you reacted in a war combat situation out there.

Interviewee 2: [0:14:54]        You know what Billy, I was shocked with– back to what you were saying is how he reacted. Very, very, very few humans on this earth would have taken that pill like a man. Some people would actually get rid of friendship [inaudible 15:05]

Interviewee 1: [00:15:06]      It was brutal. I saw. [Yeah, it was bad]. what was funny about it is [it actually bonded us closer]. I didn’t even– I didn’t realize that. Like first you heard all the noise. I didn’t even realize there was mouse tracks and then he’s like[inaudible 15:18] finally gets over. I’m like, oh, that’s bad. They got him twice, man. they got him twice.

Interviewee 3: [00:15:22’]    Oh yeah, we didn’t even get all the mouse traps set up because he started to wake up, so we were just like, alright, go push the green button.

Interviewee 2: [00:15:28]      Its’ go time. Luckily we had Mr John Barnes who’s a marine, so he’s like, we got to roll boys, we got to roll. [laughter] Oh Man. It was hilarious.

Interviewee 3: [00:15:38]      That’s great times.

Scott: [00:15:40]        What are you guys doing? Sorry, let me rephrase that. What are you guys doing that others don’t?

Interviewee 2: [00:15:44]      What are we doing that other personalities and shows are not doing? Is that correct?

Scott: [00:15:49]        Yeah. You can come take this mic now because I did not ask that question correctly. You got it from

Interviewee 2: [00:15:52]      Is that what you’re asking?

Scott: [00:15:53]        Exactly yeah.

Interviewee 2: [00:15:54]                  Do you guys want to answer it?

Interviewee 1: [00:15:55]      I was just waiting on you to switch them spots.

Interviewee 3: [00:15:57]      Oh, okay. Yeah. Can we switch pants too? I think that your pants will actually be more comfortable than mine. This is all I had left [inaudible 16:04]

Interviewee 2: [00:16:04]      [inaudible 16:04] both get in his pants. [We might]. It’s funny. I had a conversation with a gentleman. You know what? I’m just going to drop his name. I think he’d be totally cool with it. Benny Spies, I got to tip my hat to Benny spies right now. I don’t know if you know who Benny Spices. Okay. He’s from South Dakota, but he is like, you have the individuals in every industry that kind of paves the way and breaks the ground and you know, he’s the dude with the plow and everybody almost kind of reaps a little bit of what he sowed. Every industry has that. For us we can attribute a little bit to this path being cleared through the woodline to Benny Spices. Benny spices was the first guy that really came out that said, you know what, I’m going to buck the grain. I’m going to fight the system a little bit.

Most of your outdoor shows currently are– it really is– people who sometimes are not real for real. I mean, it’s like that’s not the normal guy. A normal guy. He doesn’t have $39,000 where the gear that he’s taken into the woods, and he doesn’t speak like that. He doesn’t look like that. A lot of times they miss. I know I miss right. I’m not the best fisherman. Willy took me to school, crop efficient a couple of weeks ago. So the thing that we do, the other people don’t do is we really try to be real, we really try to show it like it is. And I’ve been. I’m 33 years young, but I can tell you that I’ve been to enough fish camps and the camps to know or hunting camps to know that when there’s no cameras, okay, dudes are real and people like to laugh. People like to cut up, people like to have a good time. People like to talk and people like being friendly with other people. That’s just the way it is. A duck camp or a hunting camp or a deer camp, but as soon as the camera gets turned on, all of a sudden everybody’s got to be this epic superhero.

And so that’s the thing that we’ve really strived hard not to do. And in our industry, a lot of people don’t take kindly to that. They just haven’t. From a viewership standpoint and even some of the people that are on our level kind of look at us and go, you know, what, you guys are kind of idiots and sometimes we are, but if you want to know the absolute truth and you want to put something out there that may or may not cause a little wave, put that out there. That’s truth because that’s the way it is. Anybody else?

Interviewee 1: [00:18:42]                  Yeah, I mean I would echo everything that you just said and even if you want to go to our season finale from season four, that whole gigantic thing or that whole thing was based on a gigantic prank.[inaudible 18:58] to that. [laughs] So that kind of plays along what we were talking about, joking and messing around with each other, but also things that we are trying to do that maybe not everyone is doing is just trying to let our viewers, our viewership and everyone gets in on the jokes and make them a part of the community because really like what is a mud bum? or is anybody that grew up like us and likes to do all that stuff. So we want to include those people and try to just make everyone be welcome.

Interviewee 3: [00:19:28]      Yeah. I think the biggest thing was just staying who we are, true to our roots, where we came from and not becoming somebody that we’re not, that’s really just been the whole basis of it all. It was just being who we are and portraying that to everybody that wants to watch our stupid jokes, antics, fun time, stuff like that

Interviewee 1: [00:19:49]      in the serious times too, [Oh yeah] because we are a service. Yeah.

Scott: [00:19:55]        I think the most underrated thing in the world is storytelling. I think people need– think you need to have the best camera, the best gear, the best drone, the best audio to create a good show, a good story. But it’s really the story, [It’s so true]. It doesn’t matter. I mean, I see better stories and pictures on a phone than I do with people with $40,000 gear. When I watch your show, I feel a part of it. I’m not disc– I feel like a part of it, feel like I’m there at times and I’m going to go to that storytelling on that prank. I mean, I was till the end.[laughter]

I watched that whole darn thing and I was like, how did that, I mean, the storytelling alone and what you did in there was amazing. Like I could not. I was like, why is he got a crane? They’re like, what? It can’t be that big, but I literally did not know. [laughter] Phenomenal, so I would really– I want to talk about that and to fill everybody in for whoever hasn’t seen what happened. Do you want to give the really quick bullet points of that?

Interviewee 2: [00:21:00]      Yeah. So we established a homonym that exists within our world and the homonym is flathead. So homonym being a dual meaning word. And so a word with dual meanings. So flathead catfish. I don’t think I need to explain that one. And then flathead screwdrivers. And so identifying the flathead through a good friend of ours who identified the homonym. And then we just expounded on that. Is that the word? Johnny’s a word smithing genius, so I always look at him for approval. So we just kind of, we expanded on that and the storyline was the mud bums landed the world’s largest flathead and just broke the world’s the world record flathead. And so what do we ended up doing was we partnered with a company, two companies here in town to Molten Metal Fab, a guy by the name of Hank Newell who can build anything out of metal, steel, aluminum, doesn’t matter. He designed, fabricated the whole nine, this giant flathead. That’s how long johnny?

Interviewee 1: [00:22:11]      It is twenty three-seven and three quarters. So it’s seven point one, six meters for all of you over the pond listening.

Interviewee 2: [00:22:18]      And what is the current world record? Because there is a current world record that we had to break.

Interviewee 1: [00:22:23]      And we had to bring it back to the old red, white and blue. So it was over in India, ironically it was 20 feet, nine inches. Six point or something meters. I forget that one. But..

Interviewee 2: [00:22:35]      So we thought that just would be great. We break that record. And there was– so there was a couple of different thoughts on how we were going to reveal it. but we settled on the excavator idea. I mean we talked about helicopters, we talked about trucks and there was a lot of that going on, a lot of that planning going on.

Scott: [00:22:56]        Yeah. And that guy are gracious landowner who provided the scene and the excavator and all that was he didn’t know what was going on either. We didn’t really give him a lot of information and so we had to keep that hush hush for a little while.

Interviewee 1: [00:23:10]      So hey man, you care for, you take over your creek bottom, your giant farm and your huge s excavator for a weekend. And he’s like, no, that’s totally cool. [laughter]

Interviewee 3: [00:23:17]      And he went even as far as to say, oh no, I’ll transport that wherever you want.[whatever you need] I mean, awesome dude. A Guy I’ve known for 20 years and he’s unbelievable.

Interviewee 2: [00:23:25]      So that’s the storyline. It happened on April fool’s. We called the network. We call the sportsman channel. Said, ‘hey guys, are you guys interested?’ What’s your buying? They said, move full throttle. We got a hold of Mark Zona, we were actually with Bill Dance in Martin Zona at lake x with mercury in January and while we were there, Johnny and I took a camera down there on the plane and we got those two guys to get in on the joke with us. So we filmed Bill dance in his hotel room and Mark Zona in the lobby of the hotel because we got to hang out with them for a couple of days. And so they were in on it. We got everybody’s blessing all across the board. And everybody’s like, yeah. it was real, it was fun. It was fun because it was totally out of the typical norm of the outdoor space.

Interviewee 1: [00:24:09]      And did we lose some viewership?

Interviewee 2: [00:24:11]      Yeah. We lost a little bit of viewership.

Interviewee 1: [00:24:13]      Did we gain other’s?

Interviewee 2: [00:24:15]      Yeah, yeah, we did, but it was worth it to– for us, the few that we lost for what we gained and for people to see our real true core, it was worth it for us because man, really, if you’re not the type of person that likes to joke and you don’t like to cut up, we’re probably not your cup of soup [right] but if you like some good dudes that like to cut up and– but can still carry on an intellectual conversation and understand that there’s a time and a season for everything. We’re probably your guy.

Scott: [00:24:41]        When you were actually putting it together, did you think it was going to fly like it did or not? Well, I think that whole thing. I mean that’s a whole podcast in itself and then some– so it’s going to be hard to give this in a quick manner. But how did it come about trying to hit some bullet points? How did it become, how did it come about?

Interviewee 1: [00:25:00]      Well, it was an accident, like most things in life that are just kind of wild. But it was another episode fell through and myself, Mr. Crash and Lauren, our producer had a meeting on January first New Year’s Day. We’re supposed to leave on the third and it fell through. So we’re like, all right, well we’re not going to do that. What are we going to do? And now we have an episode to film. So that we were kind of looking through some calendars and thrown some wild ideas out. And Lauren our producers is the guy that was like, oh my gosh, do you realize that our finale airs on April first? And so we’re like, we just all—

Interviewee 2: [00:25:40]      Just for the record, Mr Lauren Aka danger dad with the video tape of guys is not a black and white dude either. He’s– he likes some creative, funny prank stuff. So go ahead, continue.

Interviewee 1: [00:25:51]      So we all just kind of looked at each other and nobody said a word. There were no words that needed to be spoken. So that’s when the ideation began. And so we, you know, whatever, time pass we get– we arrived at the idea, we had the particulars of the bills and everything nailed down. And then it came down to the planning and you know, like you were talking about the believability of the interviews and stuff.

Most of those were unscripted just off the cuff, there were a few takes, but that was pretty much just like everyone just kind of freestyling and there are a few different takes and really it came down to the editing and the story of what was the story we wanted to tell and how are we going to do the reveal. And we actually did the reveal sequence. We shot it after we shot the interviews. So we had already told the story and then had to kind of like create a situation that matched up with that. So that was a little bit difficult, difficult. And that’s nothing any of us have ever even come close to doing.

Interviewee 2: [00:26:50]      Yeah. There was a storyline with no script and it was just imagine yourself in this environment. Let, let me paint a picture for everybody. It’s like we all had to meet and say, okay, heres the picture that we need to paint. And you have to put yourself into that moment with that emotion, with the lady that’s interviewing you. As she’s interviewing you and you’re responding like that just happened. And like Johnny said, that didn’t happen at all. So there was no script. It was roll with it.

Scott: [00:27:23]        You got mad acting skills.

Interviewee 1: [00:27:24]      And another fun fact about that is that lady that they interviewed us didn’t even know anything about it. When she showed up, she had no idea what she was doing. And we just, she thought she was doing some serious thing. I was like, oh no, this is a giant joke. And she’s like, wait, what?

Interviewee 3: [00:27:39]      And to take it even one step further, it’s not like we were all there together when we did the interviews, we were actually at the Iowa, dear classic, which that’s the biggest show for us in Iowa. And we rented a room in the hall in Hivey Hall at Iowa classic. And we had guys working the booth. And then it’d be like, oh, hey, by the way, shiner Europe, head upstairs to get interviewed by Lindsey. And then she would interview you. And then you like roll back down and take over the booth again and start selling tee-shirts to people and signing kids shirts. So it wasn’t like there was a lot of prep and we were all in the room. It was– you got a double team double task today. This is what you’re doing.

Scott: [00:28:24]        What are some challenges that you guys face that people might not expect?

Interviewee 2: [00:28:28]      Well we just had one recently. We were affected by Medicaid. [How’s that one?] That one is actually going to turn into a giant mountain for us. Never would I ever thought that our company and our standard operating procedure in the way in which we do things within divisions of our company is going to be affected by Medicaid, but it just happened. It’s going to affect our assembly and our manufacturing because of the people that we use. We now have to build a completely different manufacturing and assembly business model coming by the end of the month. So we deal with that stuff, American made has been very tough. We deal with that. We’ve dealt with that. You guys got any of that just pop up real quick off the top of your heads that the things we deal with,

Interviewee 1: [00:29:22]      I mean, same problems a lot of people deal with when they’re trying to grow and scale and just personnel and time and prioritization and resources. Same old thing there. But yeah, he hit on some, some great ones that are pretty unique that I would have never guessed running up against you.

Interviewee 2: [00:29:42]      Yeah, I think in terms of like business creation, entrepreneurship, patenting, trademarking, and then just being the person who’s going to look at, in the face of adversity and everyone telling you that can’t work. Still being able to find the answer. We dealt with the design of our cap on the hawg lawg, so that’s seven years, nine generations of prototypes, $50,000. That’s what the hog lot really was. That was the product that we invented and started manufacturing that cap. That cap alone that is made out of assertell and Assertell is essentially a non hygroscopic plastic, meaning it will not absorb moisture. You have to have that if you put plastic in an environment where there’s moisture, right, especially if it is reliant upon being able to twist out of another piece of plastic, becaus if it swells, you won’t get it out. We learned that lesson the hard way. Remember Willie and I dealing with that.

The point I’m trying to make is when we created that during a plastic injection mold, during that whole creeation of the park thing, they’ve got thermo, expansion and contraction and there’s, there’s actual rates that they have to build into that, and I remember sitting down with personnel, after personnel, after personnel, after personnel, after personel, after personnel that said you cannot create that part out of acetone or [inaudible 31:05] depending on the circles you’re in. And we just kept going to the next guy and kept going to the next guy and kept going to the next guy and finally found the guy that did it. And I just wanted to go to all those other people and said, Oh hey, by the way, wasn’t us, but this guy ate your lunch. But it was being told that wouldn’t happen or couldn’t happen when in all actuality it could. But you’re just led to believe that this is the industry standard. So it was really cool.

Scott: [00:31:38] No, is not a bad thing.

Interviewee 2: [00:31:40]      Yeah. And I believe there’s a time and place for no. I believe no has its place. And I’m like you man. I’m an old school cat. So you and I were talking when you walked into the store earlier, you’re only man and I’m an old school guy. I’m a handshake kind of guy and I’m sitting here thinking this is my kind of dude, right? Is My kind of guy. He doesn’t need a contract. He shakes hands. Right. That’s my kind of guy. And so old school guys like that with that old school thought of hard work, right? [Yeah,oh yeah]. And the way in which we were brought up, which is lost by and large, but that old school mentality, I got told no a lot and I believe that there are the parameters that you have to adhere within as a child and as a parent and as these different people. Right. We might be getting off track, but no exists for a reason and I do believe in no, but man when it starts messing with your heart, that’s when I don’t believe in no.

Scott: [00:32:34]        How do you suggest someone gets started? Not necessarily in the industry, but something you’re passionate about or you haven’t, you got an idea or you want to go and be an entrepreneur. What advice would you give them? I think all of you should answer this.

Interviewee 1: [00:32:48]      I guess my quick and easy and dirty, would just be do it because don’t wait for the right time because there isn’t a right time and so let’s just jump off the cliff and get dirty and figure it out because I mean earlier it was touched upon that there were multiple iterations of the hawg lawg and lots of failures, like don’t be afraid to fail, fail fast and fail. There’s a term I used to use and I forget what it is, but it was like fail fast, fail often or whatever. Something along those lines where don’t be afraid to fail, but learn something from it and figure out how to improve. So I think that’s what most people are afraid of is not being successful and you’re never going to be and you just don’t want to look back and have never tried.

Interviewee 3: [00:33:35]      I think for me, it’s just risk. You have to be willing to take that chance that you will fail, that you won’t make it. I’ve always kind of had a risky mentality growing up and doing stupid things and getting in trouble and all that. It’s just all risky things. Well then when you get the opportunity to start a business with your buddies and you have no solid foundation at the end of the day that this will succeed. You’ve got to take the risk to go and make it happen. And you are the only one that can make that happen. Somebody else is not going to do everything for you. So at the end of the day you have to have the willpower to do so and have some risky feeling vibe about you to make it happen.

Scott: [00:34:18]        And to also understand that there is risk in not taking risk.[Yeah].

Interviewee 2: [00:34:23]      My two cents on that is I don’t think in every scenario that it is that you’re going to have to have this, but I do believe that it should be a prerequisite in your train of thought before you ever do go down the road of entrepreneurship. Not Saying you’re going to have to pull that card, but you might is you have to be willing to put that above everything, and doesn’t mean you’re going to have to. It doesn’t mean you’re– that is going to happen, right? Some people’s businesses take off and they don’t need to put that in front of their family. They don’t need to put that in front of their church. They don’t need to put that in front of, name it. Right.

There’s other businesses that don’t take off like that and you have to put it in front of everybody else and I have sacrificed my family. I have sacrificed my girlfriend. I have sacrificed my personal life. I’ve sacrificed my finances and I’ve had to do that because we weren’t the– oh, you guys just envision visited the widget and you guys just bought a house in Tahiti. That didn’t happen to us. It was the long days, and so not saying you’re going to have to do it, but if you’re going to start something and you want to increase your chances of success, you have to be willing to say, at some point in time I’m going to have to grab that gear. Am I willing to grab it? That’s a hard year grab.

Interviewee 3: [00:35:49]      I would say I think that’s probably a characteristic trait of we are classified as millennials by technicality, by actual where we all fall, our birthdays, we are quote unquote millennials, but none of us are millennials because we don’t fall underneath the actual characteristic of a millennial. All of our parents or grandparents, the people that we were taught from were blue collar, not always blue collar, but hardworking Americans at any position that they had and those values were instilled in us. And so I feel like the people that are young, younger than us, that are want to be entrepreneurs, they don’t have that edge so they’re going to have to teach themselves that type of work. And I think that’s a huge advantage that we had going into this is; that we were– we’ve seen what hard work does. We’ve been through hard work and I think that’s a huge, huge thing when going into the entrepreneurial world.

Scott: [00:36:52]        How has technology helped with what you guys do?

Interviewee 1: [00:36:58]      I mean, the one that jumps out to me, just knee jerk answer to this would be just the– if you would look at 15 years ago or 20 years ago, just– I mean, something as simple as the internet and cell phones and consumption of social media, all those things put together. I mean, if you look at our whole organization, you know there’s a part that’s a TV show, you’ve got a part that’s a retail storefront which includes an online presence which includes the way that we mail packages and track packages and everyone’s connected and you instantly get an email when something– Just the whole way that you can[cold beer that I opened. Just– Sorry, go ahead John], [laughter] but just the way– I think the way that media is consumed has played into attention spans and that has played into how much people can pay attention to certain things and what they think is cool and all kinds of different things. So that– I mean it’s made our job easier and harder at the same time. But just that whole world of the connected world is a nebulous, nebulous rabbit hole that you can go down.So–

Interviewee 2: [00:38:12]      Technology really helped us to educate people about the product. When you look at what we did, because we created a product called the hawg lawg and it was in a space where nothing like that ever existed. And so it’s not like we– We didn’t redesign the car, we essentially brought the wheel to market. Well, there was an idea that existed. People made their own stuff out of willow branches. Anywhere from willow branches to. Yeah. I’m looking at you, man. You’re not [inaudible 38:40] you did that probably when you were a kid.

Scott: [00:38:41]                    Yup. Blue, the blue–are the berries that fall off the trees.

Interviewee 2: [00:38:45]      Yeah Mulberries,

Interviewee 1: [00:38:45]      Mulberries, [dingleberry’s] Oh dingleberries too?

Interviewee 3: [00:38:48]      Yep. Yup. We have to go pick them, finger stain, put them on the [inaudible 38:52]

Interviewee 1: [00:38:53]      You said fingers stink.

Interviewee 3: [00:38:55]      Yes, Dingleberry’s it’s– [inaudible 38:56]I get it.[laughter]

Interviewee 2:           [00:39:02]       But that’s what, from the technological standpoint, we had a big mountain to climb because number one, we were taking a product that when you say, Oh yeah, we created the daddy poll. 90 nine point nine percent of people are going to go, what is that? Because actually vernacular is going to be contingent upon your geographic location. So a lot of times people might even know that what a dirty poll is, but they actually call it, a Bush hook because they live 781 miles away from where I’m standing right now. [Now that you exactly know the miles]right? [inaudible 39:35], you know what I mean though, it’s–so we had the education piece and the TV, it helped us, it helped to get it up to the masses that, hey, this is a method that that’s legal, and here’s a product that basically solves all these other problems that you guys are dealing with. Tangled Mess Salvageability, that, that, that, that, that. Now for the record, in the cat fishing world, most conventional guys and unconventional guys are at war right now. In fact, they’re probably plotting as we speak, to burn the other person’s house down when the guy goes to sleep.

That’s probably what’s happening, Because the rod and reel guys hate the unconventional guys. Unconventional being the trotline Bush up, did he pull, jugs, you name it, right? And so, and at the same time, the unconventional guys don’t like the Rod and reel guys because they feel like they’re way high on this pedestal and they’re better than everybody else. And so we like for everybody to understand where we stand, we don’t side with anybody. Here’s where– here’s the side that we signed on. We signed on, at least me, I’m not going to speak for my guys. Here’s where I sigh; is I sigh on what’s right and just, Now, I just– think about that for a second, right? There’s a way of doing things that are right and just. And if it’s legal and if it’s ethical and you’re taking care of your fishery, who are you to question that individual and what he’s doing because what’s good for you may not be good for this guy and what’s good for this guy may not be good for you. And so that’s the world we live in is everybody thinks that the problem, that they’ve got the answer for all the problems, right?

But they think that the answer to their problem is when they solve somebody else’s problem. I’m just going to tell you that’s not the way it works, so we created the hawg lawg, just streamline and create efficiencies for somebody and it also gives somebody something to invest in and when you invest in something, you take it home. So if you’re putting $2 worth of equipment on the river, you’re more apt to leave it on the river. If you’re putting $35 worth of equipment on the river, you’re more apt to bring it home. Nobody leaves their Matthew’s boat sitting in the woods because it wasn’t easy to walk back to the house with it. And so that’s what a lot of guys don’t understand.

What many guys don’t get, they don’t like the ditty pool thing or the hawg lawg thing that we’re bringing this product to market is. I’ve never in my– in the five years of doing this herd of hawg lawgs, literally riverbanks. That’s like saying that carbon maximas are littering the woodlots. It’s not going to happen, friend. It’s not. You’re going to exhaust every effort you can to take that home. If you’re like me and don’t have a unlimited income because I don’t. [Righ]t. So that’s the hall blog for the record.

Scott: [00:42:36]        What inexpensive tool do you use that makes you excel?

Interviewee 1: [00:42:40]      So a lifestyle question or a business question?

Scott: [00:42:45]        Lifestyle.

Interviewee 2: [00:42:46]      Okay. Is it a camping thing or a shipping thing?

Scott: [00:42:49]        It could be fishing, it Could be–

Interviewee 2: [00:42:50]      I feel like the aquaponics thing is that. Because I feel like the aquaponics is something that even your basics– your basic of dude, if you really wanted to do it and he could do it, it’s not overly expensive. You can do it in a ton of different combinations. You don’t have to do what we did [and building to fit your need essentially], you build it to fit your needs and your budget and in my opinion, please correct me if I’m wrong here, Willy. I felt like that was a game changer.

Interviewee 3: [00:43:20]      Yeah. Oh, absolutely. Yeah. It’s definitely saved us on a lot of time and oh crap moments. [Describe what that is?] Essentially when an aquaponics system is; you have a holding tank filled with water. We use an IBC tank, but I mean, it can be anything. You could pour a concrete pool and make an aquaponic system, but we have an IBC tank and we cut the top off of, we kept the metal cage around that tank. So then fill that up. I think it’s right around 300 and some odd gallons of water, that that holds. And then we took another IBC tank and cut the bottom and cut the top off and essentially flipped them over so you have two grow beds and the way an aquaponic system works; is your grow beds have to be above the waterline of your holding tank.

So we’ve elevated them and built like a little greenhouse shelter outside of a shack. It’s in my backyard. And then you use just like your standard pond pump that you used to recirculate water or fountain pump and you pump that water out of that tank and it disperses out over the plants that you’ve planted in your grow beds. And essentially the plants will then filter the ammonia, which is the biggest fish killer in a big tank. So those plants will filter the ammonia and turn that into nitrites and nitrates, I believe, I’m not a science guru, but it turns those back into more suitable water for the fish so essentially and drains it back into the holding tank for the fish. So it’s a big circle. The fish provide the food for the plants. The plants provide the filtration for the ammonia, for the fish. That way you’re able to house large amounts of fish and grow insane plants. Like right now I have a tomato plant that might be in the running for the United States largest tomato plant.

Interviewee 2: [00:45:09]      Yeah, I’m pretty sure he should probably register it for the state fair. [inaudible 45:12] It’s pretty basic. Yeah. Yeah [laughter]

Interviewee 1: [00:45:15]      Ride on. I want to see this thing. They’re going to have to take a picture of it. Sent it to me.

[Scott:           00:45:44]                     All right, so you got any?

Interviewee 1: [00:45:48]      I mean my can be totally free but it’s just, and it seems really obvious, but it’s just like be organized and be ready. So anything from having shelves and having all your stuff in totes on shelves so that you’re ready to go and you don’t waste all that time getting stuff ready every time because I’m one of the newer dudes in the crew and there I had to learn certain things and if you forget something, if you forget your headlamp for a trip, it’s like, oh, I just ruined my week. [Right]. So it’s just like putting stuff back in its place. And that’s maybe a really dumb one.

Interviewee 3: [00:46:27]      No, is not; because after you’ve been on the road for seven days, you come back and you’re tired and you’re like, yeah, I’ll get to that later. But yeah, it, makes you much more successful and if you’re like me, you need lists and you need things to be in their place or you will forget them. Yeah. Yeah. So I’ve, I’ve done that before where I’ve gone on trips and forgotten stuff I needed in either cost me money or cost me time or just convenience. So that’d be mine.

Interviewee 2: [00:46:54]      So in the spirit for what my good friend Jonathan Willy, just said, I’ll share with you a picture that I sent over to these guys Sunday morning, at nine, 40 6:00 AM, I was in church. Okay. Because I think everybody needs it, especially me.[laughter] Yeah. Everybody thinks it’s the perfect people that go to church [inaudible 47:19]No, it’s not, it’s a hospital for the broken, my friend. So one of the verses that came up over the overhead projector was, but everything should be done in a fitting and orderly way. And so I texted it to him and the reason I texted it, not because what he’s saying, although this is very in line with what we’re talking about, the reason that I sent it was because it was first corinthians 14:40. Now I’m going to open up another can of worms.

Scott: [00:47:45]        Oh, you’re going to drop it on this one.[we good?] I might have to go run to the store and grab a case.

Interviewee 2: [00:47:54]      Do you want to take it? [Take it].

Interviewee 1: [00:47:56]      Oh No, I think this is either you or Willy. Even though I was there that night, it was created. But…

Interviewee 2: [00:48:01]      So here’s what’s really interesting and I don’t– We’re still trying to identify if the algorithm is coincidence, if this is strictly coincidental or if it’s truly something that is trying to slap us in the face. Because I think that we’ve all asked that question.

Interviewee 1: [00:48:16]      Oh, without a doubt.[laughter]

Interviewee 2: [00:48:20]      We’re extremely analytical individuals. So a few years ago, there’s a video of my dear friend sitting next to me, Mr Niles Bailey, aka Willy in which– it was late that night and he was talking to another individual on the phone that he had called correct, an individual that he did not know personally[No] mostly classify this as a prank call, may or may not have been, and Willie may or may not have been anibrated, Okay. [laughter] in which one of the things that Willy had said was– are you okay with me [inaudible 49:01]?

Interviewee 1: [00:49:03]      Yeah, Yeah. Go ahead.

Interviewee 2: [00:49:05]      He mentioned to the guy a model number of a moped, correct? [Correct. Yes]. Willy was trying to purchase a moped from the man and was asking him if it had a 14 point four turbo whistler in it. [That is correct]. Okay.[laughter] And so–

Interviewee 3: [00:49:17]      Little backstory is that– moved in with Mr Jonathan Wall right here and his roommate, another good friend of ours and he– they had been pranking this gentlemen, asking them about purchasing this moped. And if I remember correctly, there was a couple of failed attempts to purchase this moped.

Interviewee 2: [00:49:38]      You tell this story, I’ll tell the backstory.

Interviewee 3: [00:49:40]      Okay. And so essentially I called it the 14 four turbo whistler during this prank and a long story short, the number 14 for reoccurs in our life.

Interviewee 1: [00:49:56]      Oh, it just– So now…

Interviewee 2: [00:49:57]      It’s all the time. It’s all the time [crosstalk] everywhere,

Interviewee 3: [00:50:02]      We’d be driving down the highway fourteen for clearance underneath a bridge. You can be going into the bank and your change is fourteen point four cents. I mean, it is unreal. How many times this occurs within all of our lives?

Interviewee 2: [00:50:14]      Yeah. so there’s two things that I want to touch on before I lose track of it. Number One, don’t let me lose track. this was the number that was on the back of our shirt, on our jersey. [Yep]. Okay. So we’ve made jerseys with this number on the back. So if you ever see this number, this is what this means. Okay. It is a reoccurring number that we see all the time that we’re trying to figure out why we see it all the time because it’s– We see it all the time. I’ve probably had three instances this week. Buddy of mine, James Wynette lives 15 miles north of where we’re standing right now. Took a bike ride the other night, took a screenshot of how far and distance that he traveled, did this post. I’m scrolling through facebook. 14 point four miles. I see this all the time. I texted it to these guys.

Interviewee 1: [00:50:55]      And actually when he texted that, is it Corinthians? [Yes]. That texts on Sunday. I– seconds later I was looking through Facebook and we had 1,404 likes and something.

Interviewee 2: [00:51:06]      We had 1,404 likes at the same moment that I texted that over. Yeah. So it’s just, [it’s ridiculous]. It really is. It’s weird.

Scott: [00:51:15]        Your next product, fourteen-four [laughter] Well. right? It’s actually, it’s model number, right?

Interviewee 2: [00:51:22]      Yeah. So the model number of our hawg lawg internally within our inventory and our database is the 14 for GDB. So it is a fourteen-four, a hawg lawg is. I’ll tell you what GDP means when we aren’t recording this [laughter]

Interviewee 1: [00:51:40]      And the GD has nothing to do with Gosh Darn.

Interviewee 2: [00:51:42]      No, It does not. Thank you for clarifying that..

Interviewee 1: [00:51:45]      Nothing. Nothing, nothing to do with that.

Interviewee 2: [00:51:46]      No, that’s– I hate that. Yeah. I hate that word. Those two words together. Yeah. That’s funny. So 14 four, but all of this spooled up from what Jonathan said earlier and that was being organized, being organized, man. And he’s a hundred percent right. He’s really good at always having what he needs and having a system for everything. And if he messes his own system up, typically he’s the one that pays for it. And I know that we all kind of pay attention to that about Jonathan. He’s really good at that. That’s a great thing

Interviewee 1: [00:52:24]      I learned from you dad.

Interviewee 2: [00:52:25]      Thank you son. [laughter]

Interviewee 1: [00:52:32]      Even though you’re three years younger than me[inaudible 52:35] dad.

Interviewee 2: [00:52:35]      Dude, I remember that too. That was super weird when it happened. When you were conceived, it was totally awkward.

Interviewee 1: [00:52:40]      Where’d [inaudible 52:41] it was for me too. [laughter]

Scott: [00:52:44]        I got one more and then we’ll go into just some quick one liners [commercial break?]. Yeah. Commercial break.

Interviewee 1: [00:52:50]      Are we going to do word association too?

Scott: [00:52:53]        No, because I already learned you’re the wordsmith and I don’t want to be embarrassed.

Interviewee 1: [00:52:55]      Yeah, I’m probably good because I probably say some non pc things

Scott: [00:52:59]        So I’m sure you get a lot of questions for people asking you when’s the right condition to fish? What’s the best bait? What is the question they’re not asking you that they should be asking you instead of the obvious?

Interviewee 2: [00:53:12]      That’s a really good question [is a great question]. I’m going to tell you your questions are great.

Scott: [00:53:18]        Well, thank you.

Interviewee 2: [00:53:19]      You’ve probably been– I’m going to go ahead and say it on the record. You have been by far the most thoughtful individual that has ever interviewed us.

Scott: [00:53:30]        Really?

Interviewee 2: [00:53:31]      Yes.

Interviewee 1: [00:53:32]      It just– you’ve really thought your questions out great.

Scott: [00:53:35]        All right. So where did you get that. What do we– what are they not asking you? Because I know there’s questions they’re not asking[inaudible 53:40]

Interviewee 1: [00:53:41]      Are you trying to derive or are you trying to get to the answer of how to catch more fish? What’s the answer this came from?

Scott: [00:53:46]        Is this camping, is this fishing? Is this..

Interviewee 2: [00:53:48]      The question that they’re not asking to derive what answer?

Scott: [00:53:51]        You know what? we’re going to do all three of them for fishing, and these could be rapid fire too,

Interviewee 3: [00:53:57]      It was just kind of along the lines, but I think just anywhere in anything, just maybe it’s not a question, but it’s what they’re doing and as much time as you can spend in the space that you want to live in is ultimately going to make you better. So the more time you can be on the river is going to answer more of those questions. I can draw you pictures, I can point you in directions, I can explain things to you, but the end of the day when you get out on the river or on the lake or in the woods, you’re going to be lost with not ever being there before. So I think just time, putting time in, with anything is going to get you better.

Scott: [00:54:28]        Super underrated. You’re right, putting time in learning, not trying to do everything. Just focus on what you want to be great at and just focus on that. Very good. Any other comments on that?

Interviewee 2: [00:54:40]      I don’t think I can top that. That was really…

Interviewee 1: [00:54:42]      No, and it’s funny because mine was going to be kind of the same thing, but the question, what are you learning? So like people don’t always stop and ask like what am I learning? So I might do the same thing 10 times and right like, but are you really learning anything from it? So are you stopping and analyzing what you’re doing and thinking about cognitively, like what was the weather like that day? What was– just actually thinking about variables. Right.

Scott: [00:55:09]        Okay. We can then go to what questions don’t they ask about camping?

Interviewee 2: [00:55:19]      For me it’s always you got to establish your goal. We just did this the other day. Johnny– oh is yesterday, Johnny and I. I’m a white board marker guy and so I will write on whiteboards. I’ll write on this table that we’re doing, that we’re on right now. Right? And you just got it, you just got to get that out. Right. And the thing is; what’s the goal?

Because sometimes you can’t have, you can’t have three different goals with them all being the goal and them all working interchangeably. It doesn’t work like that sometimes. So I guess I’m going to dive a little deeper and say the question that they’re not asking. I would have to know what their goal is. Is their intent to have the best time, is their intent to– and I just did a post on this. Actually I think it just posted. It was about your tent location.

Interviewee 1: [00:56:08]      That should [crosstalk]. Is that what you doing over there in your cell phone when we’re all talking to Scott?

Interviewee 3: [00:56:11]      [crosstalk] interview is awesome. Yeah. No wonder it was great.

Interviewee 2: [00:56:14]      No, actually, just to let you guys know I scheduled it because I think ahead, but you guys can think like that. That’s fine. That’s how elementary guys think.

Interviewee 1: [00:56:22]      [laughter] That is a super [inaudible 56:22]

Interviewee 2: [00:56:26]      No, it’s– Yeah. Here we go, right here, 28 minutes ago I posted this guy’s, no big deal, twenty minutes ago. Fourteen forty or something like that?]. Yeah, pretty close. And it’s about your– where you want your tent to be in camp. No one thinks about that until it’s 5:30 in the morning and the sun is screaming at your face and it’s burning you up and you feel like you’re in a sauna. That’s the only time you think about the tent location. You don’t ever really think about prevailing winds and so a lot of[We don’t have that here]. Yes, absolutely. So the questions you need to be asking is what’s the best camp experience that I can have? Well, what are you looking for? Because if you’re like us, we typically burn the midnight oil because we typically fish a lot at night. We’re doing a lot of night stuff, which means we’re not up at 5:30 in the morning and nor do we want to be. However, there are other people who want to wake up at 5:30 in the morning and see a sunrise because they went to bed at 8:45 the night before.

Interviewee 1: [00:57:25]      Right. [inaudible 57:25] at 4:00 AM, so whenever.

Interviewee 2: [00:57:27]      Right? So if you’re wanting that 5:45 AM, wake up with the sun on your face, put your tent over here. If you don’t want that, stick it over here. And so we think a lot about that when we camp. Where is the sun coming up, where’s the sun going down? Where’s the prevailing wind coming from, maybe that’s the question you should be asking because I can guarantee you that will make or break your trip. It can.

Scott: [00:57:50]        The question is to ask yourself, what are you, what have you learned? And always continually ask that question of what are you learning and what are you analyzing and what are you getting from that? So a lot of people come in like, well this is happening. Have you asked yourself why it’s happening? But not everyone goes to that level.

Interviewee 3: [00:58:10]      If you haven’t noticed the trend, the trend is data, yeah, data, is the data guy.

Scott: [00:58:17]        But also the moral is to ask better questions. Think your question out because you guys aren’t answering questions all day and if someone really has a chance to get in front of you, don’t ask about the best bait. Ask a better question to get to the point for the experience they want to have.

Interviewee 2: [00:58:33]      It reminded me when we started, it was our last iteration of the final prototype of a hawg lawg and I recall we had a book that sat underneath the console on the boat and it had, I can’t remember how many columns were on it. I’d have to fish it out from the archives, but we still have it. It’s got moon phase. It’s got date time, moon phase, Bait Hook, depth of water, water temperature. There’s eight to ten different things on there. And every time we set a pole we’d fill this out. And we did that for the final prototype of hawg lawg to be able to tell people without a shadow of a doubt that this we caught– we caught more fish this way than we ever did before. What we used to do is used to set– we used to weigh everything and drop it on the bottom. That’s how we were taught.

However, you can’t really put a railroad spike in a hawg lawg kit. It’s not fishing. Okay. So we got rid of that and we replaced that with a two ounce egg sinker. And completely upset the way in which we did things. You remember that Willy? [Oh Yeah] I mean, it was like– it was what; I mean it was, we really upset the apple cart within our crew because it didn’t seem right, [but it worked]and it worked better. It goes back to Johnny’s data. So when people ask us why we do what we do, because we spent nine years of our life or seven years of our life and nine generations of prototypes and $50,000 and three foreclosure notices perfecting something so well that we could tell you beyond a shadow of a doubt that it works best.

Interviewee 1: [01:00:15]      That was real Brother [thanks man]

Scott: [01:00:17]        Described the hawg lawg in one word?

Interviewee 3: [01:00:20]      Ingenious.

Interviewee 1: [01:00:20]      Efficient.

Interviewee 2: [01:00:25]      Imperfect. That will want to make you think.

Scott: [01:00:29]        What’s your favorite sound?

Interviewee 1: [01:00:29]      Birds.

Interviewee 3: [01:00:36]      Brap.

Interviewee 2: [01:00:39]      A fiddle. Very slow.

Scott: [01:00:43]        What are you terrible at?

Interviewee 1: [01:00:47]      Business.

Interviewee 3: [01:00:50]      Life.

Interviewee 2: [01:00:50]      Not being empathetical to somebodies feelings. I don’t have time for feeling sometimes.

Scott: [01:00:56]        It’s a really big word that must be German. [laughter]

Interviewee 2: [01:00:59]      That’s the one word that I [inaudible 01:01:02] [laughter]

Scott: [01:01:02]        In another career life, you would do?

Interviewee 2: [01:01:06]      Stop Man.

Interviewee 3: [01:01:07]      Cowboy

Interviewee 1: [01:01:09]      Teach

Interviewee 3: [01:01:11]      Cow Boy.[laughter] [cowboy]

Scott: [01:01:17]        All right. This isn’t one word, but I’ll ask all three of you, what would you want your legacy to be?

Interviewee 2: [01:01:29]      When I’m gone, I want people to think about me from the standpoint of that guy was from a different time and recognized who came before him. That really means a lot to me as– man I love old people and I love people with scars and stories. It was like one of my favorite things and for people to say he respected those who came before him. I’m good with that. I think that says a lot about a man being humble enough and paying homage to those who came before you. I’m okay with that.

Interviewee 1: [01:02:16]      And I guess mine’s kind of similar. I think you’ll probably find once you have a couple beers with all of us, you’ll find that we’re very– we’re largely the same guy that kind of arches into different areas of the Venn Diagram, but kind, genuine, caring and like he said, one who’s kind of lived by example. I definitely haven’t always, but that’s how I would like to be remembered as.

Interviewee 3: [01:02:49]      Yeah. I think all of us just want to live a life that– were we’re good to others and we’re positive people and we’re not negative and at the end of the day I just want to be remembered as somebody who was just a fun person to be around. I had a good time with that guy. He was a good person. He had a good heart, then killed some big bucks.[laughter] well done.

Scott: [01:03:17]        All right. This is all you guys. Do you have any asks for the audiences? Where do you want them to visit you? Where do you want them to go online? Anything here, go for it.

Interviewee 2: [01:03:27]      Okay. Well, let’s just hit the low hanging fruit here. If you want more, you can hit us up at is our email box that hits all of us. If you want to talk to people who are just in the store,, that hits the people in the store, including everybody that’s here today. If you want to hit us up on Facebook, it’s at the mud bums or at the mud bums supply shack. [It’s just mud bum supply shack], Mud bum supply shack. The mud bum supply shack Facebook page is brand new. Facebook, Instagram. we have those. Done too much on twitter. It’s not maintain as it is right now. Our website is For the e-commerce side, if you’re interested in product and the store and tee shirts and swag because just for the record, we sell a lot of other things other than what we manufacture. i.e, grunt style apparel. We’re a dealer for data trex boats. We can design for you awesome boat. We are a dealer for big frig coolers. You can come here and get your big Frig tumblers, or your coolers. So we do a lot of other things there.

Interviewee 1: [01:04:41]      I would say personally, the quickest way to my heart would be to call 5-1-5-8-5-0-1-1-0-8 and prank call jt, [laughter] Yeah, or leave a voicemail if it’s after hours, but man, there’s nothing more we love than a prank call and especially when it’s on someone else.

Interviewee 2: [01:04:57]      We’ll love that. In fact, an hour and a half before we started this podcast, this is an actual talking point. We’re going to start giving out prizes for the person that can provide the best prank call to our store. That’s going to happen. Johnny, it is not kidding. How else can they get a hold of us or what else do they need to know?

Interviewee 1: [01:05:21]      I mean, I guess the other thing would be that, we’re airing on sportsman channel and world fishing network depending on time of year, so check the listings for that. Also, yeah, Facebook and Instagram would be great ways to get videos, things like that so…

Interviewee 3: [01:05:40]      Any requests reach out to us on those other channels and let us know what you guys want to see.

Interviewee 2: [01:05:45]      Yes. Let us know what you want. We love doing that kind of stuff. We love doing that kind of stuff and to finish out. So we’re in season five right now. We’ve got half of the season five filmed and the other half of season five we’re– I think we’re only doing one more episode on cat fishing. The rest of it’s really interesting stuff. So the mud bums are going west and the mud bums are going north, so we’re going to do some survival boundary water stuff, and we’re going to go out west. I don’t know if we’re going to catch a trout or shoot a mountain lion in the face. We haven’t decided or jump up[or both] or broke off of a cliff. We don’t know what the parachute on our back that could happen. So that’s what’s coming– that’s what’s in store for you in season five.



STOP: [01:06:26] [END OF AUDIO]